Gov. Uduaghan on the ‘Mentoring System’ Educational Programme

June 17, 2009

FOR nearly two years since he became governor, Delta State was becoming something of a model in government containment of the militants in the oil-bearing region.

Through formal and community-based structures, a good number of the militants were weaned off their illegal activities and incorporated in pursuit of one of the state government’s key pillars – Peace and Security. There was relative peace until a fortnight ago when all hell broke loose and the armed forces, in a most comprehensive onslaught so far, began serial bombardment of the strongholds of the militants in the creeks. Scores have been killed and thousands displaced. Last Thursday, Governor Emmanuel Eweta Uduaghan was accompanied by military commanders, who revealed the extensive cache of arms recovered from the hideout of Tompolo, the key henchman of CAMP 5 of the militants. After the inspection of the cache, Governor Uduaghan took time off a series of scheduled security and allied meetings to share his feelings and thoughts on the military onslaught on the state. The appropriate context for his responses is the fact that he has been in the Delta State Government since the advent of the Fourth Republic in 1999 (first as Commissioner of Health, later as Secretary to the State Government and then Governor since May 29, 2007). Thus, in the two hours he spent with The Guardian’s Legal Adviser and member, Editorial Board, KINGSLEY OSADOLOR and Deputy Political Editor, ABRAHAM OGBODO, Governor Uduaghan revealed the peak and trough of his experience in the past 10 years including the bequest of his predecessor, Chief James Ibori and the delicate relationship with Chief E.K Clark and others. He also offered illuminating insights into how to strengthen and deepen Nigeria’s democracy, which is suffering from arrested development 10 years on.

FOR the better part of your first two years in office, Delta State was peaceful with regard to the activities of militants. This was as a result of measures you took to ensure peace in the state. But things have suddenly changed; what went wrong?

As part of our three-point agenda, we had peace and security, and our strategy was anchored on several factors. The first was about giving the people hope; that is, keeping hope alive. The problem has always been that we are marginalized. We are marginalized in several areas by the government and by the oil companies. For the government and the oil companies, there were two key areas: Infrastructural development and human capital development.

We decided to deal with these two areas, so that we could give the people hope. To do this, we decided to set up the Delta State Oil Producing Areas Development Commission (DESOPADEC), which was put in place by my predecessor and when I came in, I had to commission the body and start funding it.

DESOPADEC is given 50 per cent of our 13 per cent derivation fund. There are two things about the commission: One, the membership, which derives entirely from the oil producing communities, and two; 30 per cent of the commission’s funding is meant to specifically develop the oil producing areas.

The fact that members of DESOPADEC are from the oil producing communities and people, who are on the ground, they understand the needs of the people and they have been able to get to the grassroots. This gave a lot of hope and the people began to believe that the oil money that seemed to be hanging up there could now get to them. That did a lot of wonders for the people at the grassroots.

The second strategy we have used is to put in place a committee known as the Delta Waterways Safety Committee. It is made up of mainly youths, who were part of the Warri crisis, as we knew it then.

Remember that the Warri crisis started because of inter-ethnic conflict among the Ijaw, the Itsekiri and the Urhobo. And at the end of the conflict, after my predecessor had settled it, a lot of the youths, who were involved, somehow became stranded. We then decided to put them together in the committee because these are youths at the grassroots; they understand the terrain and they can get anywhere in the creeks, and they can identify with the needs of those in the creeks. We use them to collect information for the purpose of security.

Usually, before violence erupts, there are pre-warning signs and if some of these signs can be picked up, the problem can be easily solved. The Waterways Safety Committee being very active coupled with DESOPADEC, we have been able to sustain the peace.

Also, the oil companies began to change their unfriendly attitude towards host communities. Employment and contract awards in these companies were given to people from very far away leaving the local people with nothing. This administration sat down with the oil companies and said: ‘look, you need to patronize the people more.’ These are the efforts we have made to achieve the things you see.

Having said this, we still had it at the back of our mind that a lot of arms had come into the area and that we needed to deal with that. Our strategy is to provide an enabling environment for many of our youths to be employed and if many of them are meaningfully engaged, the pool that will be left for recruitment into criminal activities will be very much reduced.

And so, we have a bigger strategy of economic development of the entire state. We are trying to provide an enabling environment for industries to come to the area, and in doing that, we are looking at key infrastructure that should be in place. One of such is power. We are investing heavily in power and also partnering with the Federal Government to ensure there is power.

Generally, when you are talking about infrastructure, you are referring to transport facilities such as airports, seaports, roads and of course, the railways. We are investing heavily in those areas. The other areas have to do with ICT and urbanization. We needed to change the face of our cities so that people will be happy to come and invest. We have progressed very fast in these areas to attract investors. A lot of investors are showing interest in Delta State.

But one thing is to have peace, and another thing is to maintain it. After achieving that level, at which a lot of our youths were engaged, we still had some that we termed criminals. At that point, our strategy was to encourage the law enforcement agents to go after them. That was where we were, pushing for amnesty at the federal level.

Fortunately, Mr. President has agreed on the amnesty. We are actively part of the team that is working out the conditions for the amnesty. Ours is to tell them (the youths) that ‘Mr. President has granted amnesty, take it now or never. For those who will accept it, we will bring them out, and give them opportunities. For those who will refuse amnesty, they are pure criminals, and we will know how to deal with them.

Unfortunately, we had not got to that stage when an incident happened. Some soldiers were reported missing and when soldiers are missing, it is difficult to tell the military to fold its arms and forget about their missing colleagues. From what the military people are saying, they are looking for their soldiers. That is strictly what is happening.

Do you think the situation will get complicated as a result of the bombardment we have seen in the last few days?

It could either get worse or make the region better, depending on how it is managed. And so as a State, we are doing everything possible to manage the situation so that the damage will be minimal. I don’t want to go into the details now because we are still in the middle of the action that has taken place.

Notwithstanding, we are doing a few things as a State to ensure that the impact on our Three-point Agenda is not too heavy. There is no doubt that we will lose, and right now, we are losing some things.

I need to say this: if you are talking about peace, it is very difficult to achieve 100 per cent peace. When you achieve peace, there are bound to be hiccups, and that is why in the home, you have the husband and wife having disagreements. So, once we are able to manage this and tidy ourselves through it, I am hoping that our other strategies will still be on course.

An obvious consequence of the bombardment is the humanitarian crisis we are seeing; there are women, children and youths, huddled in temporary shelters. What has been the response of the state government in catering for the needs of these displaced people?

This thing is about seven days old; the initial thing was to try and cool down the tempers. In the first few days, tempers were quite high, and I had to personally be on ground to cool down a lot of tempers so that we could have a sense of direction.

But as at today, we have already set up a committee, what I call the rehabilitation committee, and they are providing a place where displaced persons would be sheltered temporarily. In that committee, we have people from the community, state, and local government. We also have people from the Joint Task Force because the JTF had a feeling that some of these youths would take refuge in those places, and from there, launch attacks.

We have now agreed on the modalities with the JTF and we are setting up camps for displaced people. We will take care of their food, health and shelter needs. When this whole military process is over, and the waterways are safe, we will assess whatever damage had been done and then try and do the best we can to enable them go home and resume normal life. But as far as rehabilitation is concerned, we have already started the process.

How much pressure has been on you since the flare up in the creeks began?

There has been a lot of pressure. The first feeling one has in the current circumstances is that something one has worked so hard to achieve in two years appears to have been eroded in a few days. But when one takes up a position, one faces challenges. So, after that initial feeling, I had to face those challenges. And I must say that I have received a lot of cooperation from our people.

When it started, there were people from the military and community who advised on how to minimize the damage. They were people across the board, including traditional rulers and retired military officers, and religious leaders, and they have actually helped in minimizing the pressure on me.

There have been statements that the attack is premeditated; that it was, in fact, encouraged by your government for a purpose. Is there any truth in that?

Like I said, I don’t want to go into the details now because we are still in the middle of the crisis. I think by the time the whole thing finishes, a lot will be known. But let me say this, the whole scenario could not have been premeditated. I know that at a point, people were trying to make it an ethnic issue; it is very far from it. Nobody planned the attack and directed the military to go and attack. I don’t also think anybody directed the youths to go and carry out the attack on the military.

The much-talked about peace in Delta State appears to be on fire. Can we put a time frame within which things will come back to normal?

It is difficult to put a time limit on this process, and this is what I keep telling people; you might know the beginning of a crisis, but you might not know the end. If you cast a stone in water, you will know where it will drop, but you will not know how far the ripples will go. That is exactly what this crisis is all about.

However, I must say that because of the way we have handled it, things have moved faster than they normally would have moved. That is, things are cooling down faster than we had thought. There might be ripple effects, but I don’t want to put a time frame.

I also want to say that as soon as the waterways are opened by the military, after they have made their assessment, movements in the waterways will start. Even now, there is some movement especially for women carrying food. The JTF has assured me that people carrying food will be allowed to move. It is only the speedboats that will not be allowed to move now because they might be carrying arms.

Don’t forget that most of the communities in those creeks depend on food from Warri, and once the waterways are totally locked up, you will cause a big disaster. That is why we have appealed to the JTF, and they have been quite understanding about the need for food to move.

So, as we speak, have the JTF agreed on a ceasefire or continuing the bombardment of the locations of the militants?

They have a process the details of which I don’t know. I just take it on a day to day basis. From my understanding, it is a military action, and they know what they are looking for, and they have their details. I, as a governor, can only manage the fallout.

THIS would, on the face of it, seem an unpleasant anniversary gift, knowing that May 29 marks your mid-term in office. But putting this behind, what has been your experience since you came into office two years ago?

I will say that the experience has been quite challenging, intriguing and interesting. Why do I say so? Before I came on board, one of the things Delta State was noted for was this issue of ethnic distrust, and it was the basis for a lot of problems that we had. And I told myself when I was taking office that I needed to deal with that, and I will say that has been my biggest target.

I was coming from an ethnic group, which some other ethnic groups did not trust, and my ethnic group did not also trust some others. But being part of the last administration for eight years, one had one or two reasons why this distrust was there. I think the major reason was the need to give to each ethnic group what it deserved.

There are big ethnic groups, and there are small ones. Let me take Urhobo, for instance. It is the largest ethnic group in Delta State, occupying a whole senatorial district, and also occupying some places in other senatorial districts. In the sharing formula, whether in appointments or in employment or in development, naturally, the Urhobo should have the biggest share if you are doing it on ethnic basis. And for the other smaller ones, it should go down like that.

That is what we have tried to do; that is doing things evenly, so that if it is distribution based on senatorial districts, each should get what it deserves, and if it is on ethnic basis, it should be the same. That has been the key to whatever we have achieved.

I must say that when I started, some people had doubts as to whether I was sincere or not, but when they started seeing that there was some sincerity in what I was doing, they mellowed down. I was determined to go that way because in taking that decision, I searched my conscience and I asked God to direct me. Once I was given that directive, I pursued it with a lot of determination, and I think people also saw the determination and sincerity with which I was doing it, and they came to accept it. I would say that has been the biggest challenge.

Of course, all of that flows into our three-point agenda of peace and security, infrastructural development and human capital development. Each of those three-point agenda is embedded in this big agenda of ensuring that each ethnic group did not look at the other like an enemy. I am hoping that we will be able to move to a stage in Delta one day, when it will not really matter where you come from to become the governor. Instead, people will ask if the person has the experience, the knowledge and the good heart to be fair to all. Once we able to get to that stage, we would have achieved a lot, and that is the direction I want to be moving towards.

In this context, one will recall that in the early days, you had a running battle with Chief E.K Clark, but that seems to have simmered, if not otherwise resolved. What was the trick behind it?

Let me start by saying that I grew up in my first few years with an old person, my grand mother. I am a grandmother brought up, and I think that also gave me the experience of how to relate with elderly persons.

Now, Chief E.K Clark is an elderly person; he has been what I will call ‘Who is Who’ in Nigeria: he has been a commissioner, minister, senator and whatever. He is a well-educated and well-connected person. He can enter any office in this country, including the office of the President, and he is not somebody who is hungry, and he is an elderly man. So, he is not somebody who is looking for one’s office or contest election tomorrow.

When you see that kind of person, the most senseless thing you can do is to say you want to confront him. I took the path I thought was best, and that is, I listened to whatever he was saying, and the ones I could not deal with, I just put them on the side. The ones I could deal with, I dealt with them, without responding to him, without abusing him, but instead, giving him the due respect he deserves.

He could come here and give me a knock on the head; at the end, I will still say, ‘thank you, sir,’ although, it did not get to that stage. That was my attitude towards him, and people of that group. With time, I think he now found out that I didn’t mean any harm, and I think he also saw what I described earlier – that I was giving to each segment of the State what it deserves. And it got to a point when he said: ‘well, this young man, we thought we didn’t quite know who he was; let’s watch him.’

I can tell you that as at today, our relationship is very good. Even in this crisis, we have virtually been talking on a daily basis, on the phone, comparing notes on what was being done. I think, as at now, he is quite happy with me. That is how I have related with people of that bracket.

And my advice to anybody in my position is that he should try not to make too many enemies. Even if people, maybe elders or traditional rulers are objecting to what you are doing, the more you reach out, the more friends you will make, and the less problems you will have. But if you want to fight many fights, then of course, you will have problems. That is the way I managed that situation.

Returning to one of the tripods of your administration, human capital development. This is a huge problem in this country because the quality of the products the educational system turns out is not good enough. How much of impact has your administration made on improving the quality of education that people receive?

Before I zero in on education, let me say we look at human capital development in a way that takes it from the day of a person’s conception to the day he enters the grave. As a medical doctor, I think that there is a programme of activity from the day the sperm and the egg come together and fuse for a pregnancy to start. The quality of child that is delivered affects the way it ends up in life. So, if you do not take proper care of that pregnancy from day one, a poor quality child might come out, and that child might grow up to be a miscreant and a problem to the society.

So, what did we do? We said we must look after the child, while it is in the mother’s womb so that we will have a healthy child on the day of delivery. So many women do not have access to healthcare, and antenatal care; instead, they patronize some quacks or some native people. We started our free antenatal care, and that increased the number of pregnant women that were going to the hospitals, and the number of deliveries; so, we took care of that.

Of course, from the day the woman delivers to the next 28 days, what is called neo-natal period, we have our special health programme for them. In the first five years of the baby’s life, we have programmes, which are mainly medical, like immunization and all that. We ensure that the children that are born all have immunization, and this year, we are projecting further to include full treatment in cases of illness.

It is thereafter, that you can start talking about school age, and what is to be done during school and after school in terms of employment. Even if employed, man or woman, you will require adequate health care.

We are also planning for our old people. So, that is how we are looking at human capital development. We are looking at it from the day a person is pregnant to the day he enters the grave.

Coming now to the issue of education, as far as the government is concerned, it starts from the primary schools: there is the kindergarten, but it is usually private and government is not involved in it. The child passes through the primary school, secondary school and then the university or polytechnic if the child has the opportunity. If the child cannot go to the university or even secondary school, he can also go to a trade centre to learn one trade or the other.

The Federal Government is involved in primary school administration through the Universal Basic Education (UBE), which involves primary school and the first three years of secondary school. For us as a state, we have our State Universal Basic Education Board (SUBEB), which deals with the primary schools and the Junior Secondary School (JSS).

Funds come from the federal and state governments. But the problem we do have at that level is the payment of salaries to teachers. By the arrangement now, the local government councils are handling the payment of salaries to teachers, which is a problem across the country.

The other thing is the quality of the schools, the classrooms both at the primary and secondary levels. When we came in, we held a stakeholder’ meeting on education with the ministry of education, and I told them to make an assessment for the provision of quality benches for all schools in Delta, and they came up with N52 billion. That is just for benches alone, not to talk of the cost of the buildings.

At the peak of the Warri crisis, a lot of the schools in the riverine areas moved to the cities. What we did, as part of our peace process, was to reopen the schools in the riverine areas and move them back from the urban areas. We have started building special structures and many of them have been completed. That is why I am praying that the crisis is over on time so that we do not have cause to move the schools back to the urban centres.

We had a problem with regard to teachers. Not many teachers want to go to the rural areas to teach. In fact, in some of these schools in the rural areas, they have just one teacher. So, I set up a committee, which included the NUT (Nigeria Union of Teachers) and which redistributed the teachers across the state. After that, the schools that had one teacher now had up to seven or eight teachers.

But it is difficult to keep a teacher in a rural area because of the problem of accommodation, and of course, the urban life is not there. But I stood my ground and took responsibility for all the postings and I told them that if anybody wanted any change in posting, they should come to me. There had to be sacrifice. Having said that, one also has to encourage these teachers to go to the rural communities. We are working out an incentive, an extra pay package for those teachers to go to the rural areas.

After redistributing the teachers, the shortfall became obvious. We would need 10,000 teachers, especially science teachers. We looked at how to reduce the shortfall and what we did is to put in place a process for the recruitment of 5,000 teachers. As I speak, the process for the recruitment of the 5,000 is underway.

But in employing the 5,000, there’s something critical, which is that many of the teachers will sign a five-year bond that they must work in the rural community before being brought to the urban areas. What used to happen is that people were employed and kept in the towns. But now we are saying, if anyone wants to teach, he will be employed but he has to be in the rural area for five years and after five years, he can come to the town. That’s the condition we are giving and I hope that will bring up the standard of schools in the rural areas.

I schooled in the rural area and the quality of the teachers that brought me up was as good as the quality of those teachers in the urban area. Those are the things we have tried to do at the lower level; that is, the issue of infrastructure and the staffing of the schools.

One other thing that must be emphasized about our educational system, which is still a big problem, is examination malpractice. Delta State is known to be tackling this problem because the last commissioner of education had his life revolving around stamping out examination malpractices.

We are now planning a programme called the mentoring system. What does this mean? We want who’s who in Delta State to be attached to schools in their communities. That does not mean they will have to pay money but if they have money to give, it’s okay. But they must know the school, visit the school periodically and be familiar with the teachers and the problems of the school.

Why are we doing that? It’s not possible for government to know all the problems of the schools. I am happy Abraham is here because his name is on that list and we will attach him to a school in his community. He will be a mentor and we expect that once in a while, he will go home and see the school and he can even spend 30 minutes teaching English in that school. He can just walk into the school and tell the children what it takes to be a journalist. That way, he can encourage some of the children to look forward to being journalists.

People like Gamaliel Onosode will be mentors in their schools. Chief Senator Felix Ibru will be a mentor in his community’s school. I think it will improve the quality of our education because we should collectively educate our children. We should not leave education for the teachers and the government alone.

We are also creating skill acquisition centres where people who cannot go to the university can be trained in one skill or the other. Right now, we are concentrating on welding because the oil industry requires a lot of welding. The PTI (Petroleum Training Institute) is there, and we are opening a similar school at Igbokodo.

We are also training people for agriculture. Our overall goal is to look at a Delta without oil. Oil can finish tomorrow. The price of oil can drop drastically that it becomes useless, like what we experienced last year. So, we said, okay, let us look at other sources.

Lets look at the human development aspects of your programmes. A number of advanced countries have a situation where there’s explosion in teenage pregnancy because of the kind of facilities you have talked about. Do you have a programme of concurrent sex education to prevent that kind of crisis? The other question has to do with the mentoring programme and infrastructure; have you received the consent of these persons you propose to name as mentors? With regard to the schools, are libraries and laboratories part of the infrastructural development?

Libraries and laboratories are part of the infrastructural development and it is a comprehensive programme. On the issue of mentoring, like I said, we are still compiling the names. And I will tell someone like Abraham that I am attaching him to this school and if he refuses, I’ll report him to the community. Apart from the benefits the mentoring will have for the children, it will also make people come home. There are so many of our people who don’t come home for years even when they are within the country.

So, if I say this school has been attached to you in your community and you say no, of course, I know how to report you. I’ll report you to the community, your local government and your senatorial district and I’ll report you to the state. And by the time all these people combine, I’ll see where you will run to. But on a more serious note, I think it’s something people should be interested in. A lot of people have discussed it with me and they are so eager to be part of the programme.

Coming to the problem of pregnancy, from my medical background, I don’t believe that we should wait for crisis before we embark on sex education. Sex education should begin from home with the mother and the father letting the child know that at each developmental phase, this is what to expect. We also have the schools and the various religious bodies. I can say that our free antenatal programme has not brought in any crisis in terms of teenage pregnancy.

From what you have explained, the drive for infrastructural development is quite ambitious. From where do you hope to get the money to do all of these?

First, when you plan your projects very well, you won’t have problems with funds. Each year, we make a budget based on what we have and so far we are comfortable for the first year and we have enough funds to do all the projects we have. I talked about 52 billion for benches for the schools. The overall goal is to improve the economy and if the economy improves, more money comes to the state.

At a stage, we were toying with the issue of concessioning some of the infrastructure. But concessioning at the federal level is still a big problem. Even some of the ports that were concessioned, I don’t know how well they are functioning. We are also looking at the issue of concessioning but the one we can build we will build. These aren’t one-year projects.

Considering the fact that the monthly allocation Abuja is open to a lot of vagaries due to the international price of oil, how well have you done with Internally Generated Revenue (IGR)?

Oh, I just forgot that. We are trying to improve our economy by ensuring that there are a lot more industries so that people can get employed and that will improve internally generated revenue. We have not been very aggressive because my own perspective is that people pay taxes when they see what you are doing with money. Our strategy is, let us first convince people that we are sincere. Let them see things we are doing such that when we now say they should pay tax, they will voluntarily go and pay and you won’t have to pursue them.

Let’s take the streetlight in Warri, for example. People have been saying the light will just work for two weeks and after that it will be off. The streetlight has been on for two years now and it has improved the economy. People can now even move around at nights. If I want to find or look for trouble in those areas, I’ll just put off those lights for one week and I’m sure that there will be protests and if they protest I’ll say ok, I can only put it on when you start paying your taxes. Some won’t but some will. That’s the kind of thing I am talking about. Let people experience development; let them see the benefit of what is on ground.

People are telling me the money we have will not be enough for all the things we are doing. That means, in their minds, they already know that we need to look for alternative source of money. So, when the IGR issue finally comes up, it will be easier to collect. That’s our strategy and we think it will improve our IGR on the whole.

You talked about reviving the ports in Warri, Koko and Sapele. And you have been so passionate about this. And you are thinking of linking these ports up to other cities with dual-carriage ways. When will all of these come on stream?

Warri port has actually come alive in the sense that by the end of this year, we are hovering between number two and number three, but more of number three. In fact, 36 ships were trying to come to Warri port on the day of the crisis. Of course, that would have given us a comfortable number two after which we will be pursuing number one.

As at today, we are discussing with a company called Ibeto and they have taken interest in the Koko Port and by the grace of God, they will go over there. As for Sapele, we are requesting it from the Navy because the Navy took it over but the part they are using is quite small. In fact, that port is wasting and I was there two weeks ago. It’s wasting and we must pursue it vigorously to see if we can get it back from the navy.

Somebody is handling the Burutu Port, which has been concessioned. If we have increased activities in these ports, more ships will come to Delta and if more ships come to Delta, there will be more economic activity.

Having the port is one thing, but the other thing is having a corresponding transport system, either roads or railways. We have been able to get the Federal Government to try and complete the remaining 21 kilometres of the railway line from Ajaokuta to Aladja. If we get that, it will be a very big achievement for us.

We are dualising Ughelli/Asaba road and that will take goods directly from the Warri Port straight to Onitsha on a dual carriageway. The Koko to Ugbenu road is also there.

There were some industries in the Delta, which were dear to the hearts of the people. One of them is the AT&P, Sapele. There was news some time ago that the place was being revived. What has happened?

AT&P (African Timber and Plywood) has been revived but working at very minimal capacity. Government cannot run all these big industries. The idea was to revive AT&P and let private investors take it up. But over time, the wood business in Nigeria declined and it was no longer lucrative. People have to plant wood and to get wood to AT&P; sometimes they get it from Okitipupa and other places. We don’t have forest here and we cannot grow trees.

So, the AT&P is operating at a very low capacity because of the problem with wood. But there was an initial problem of management because the person we brought to manage the place, who was from the UAC, was neither here nor there. As for the Bendel Glass, some Chinese are coming to take it over.

Bendel Glass is a very popular company, and when you go to those places, what is left is the land. That is what is useful; the equipment and the buildings are not useful for anything. Anybody who buys those companies is just buying the land. But fortunately, for the Bendel Glass at Ughelli, we have gone far in trying to sell it. As for the Asaba textile mill, another group has indicated its interest in.

Taking you back to the question of ethnic balancing. There was a recent cry of marginalization from the Itsekiri. Is it that you have not done enough for your own people?

I think what happened was that people were still living in the old order, where it is believed that if somebody from an ethnic group is the governor, his ethnic group should take virtually everything. Their expectations were higher than what they should be, and I was not ready to fall for that. What the Itsekiri are entitled to, I have given to them. But I cannot take what belongs to other ethnic groups and give to the Itsekiri; I cannot.

If you look at what we are doing, the Itsekiri cannot claim they have been marginalized. The thinking is like; it is our son that is there, so we must get this or that position. But I say no, because that will be against what I am saying, and what I stand for. What you are entitled to, you will get, and what the other ethnic groups are entitled to, they will get. I think at a point, the people knew where I stood on that matter.

You talked about DESOPADEC, would you say that the commission has done excellently well to meet the expectations of the people and the government?

To some extent, yes. DESOPADEC is an outfit that is just starting from the scratch; it had no framework, antecedents and all of that. There was nobody there, and they were just starting off. It is just like a plane taking off; most times, there is turbulence when the plane is taking off.

So that is the way I am looking at DESOPADEC. It was just taking off and there was a lot of turbulence, with people trying to push the structure. There was an initial scramble, but it is beginning to stabilize, and it is beginning to get a smooth ride. I think it will deliver better than it has done.

Listening to you, it is obvious that there is a model of development behind what you are doing; can we have an idea of what it is; is there any city you have seen elsewhere that is serving as a blue print for you?

Let me say that my driving force primarily is the very strong belief that we can use economic development to deal with the Niger Delta crisis. There are models across the world that we need to look at. Embedded in that belief is the view that the economic development I am looking at should not be dependent on oil.

There are models of places that have developed without oil, and the two examples in modern day development are Dubai and Singapore. These are places that have little or no natural resources; all they have is the air and human resources. We can develop without the oil; we should put the oil aside. If you ask which part of the world I am using as a model, I am always thinking of the Americas and of Europe because I have my own perception of those places. That is why when people are crying that Obama is going to Ghana and not Nigeria, I have my own perception of that, different from what many others are thinking.

How much of benefit will you say accrued to you from being in government for eight years, before coming in as governor?

I think it is not in the interest of any State, or any country for anybody to jump from nowhere, and become a governor, or a President. It is so because if you become a governor without being in government at all, even knowing the people in government and knowing who to put in particular places can be a problem. Even placing the civil servants in their right places can be a problem.

Today, I can close my eyes and say that this is the permanent secretary that can fit into this particular ministry because I had known them while I was Secretary to the State Government. I knew them, and I put them in the right places and today, I am not wrong in doing so. You just come, and you are a governor and you have never been a member of a council before; and you want to chair an Exco meeting, it is not going to be easy.

But I can tell you that in my own case, I was lucky because myself and my deputy and the Secretary to the State Government have been members of the State Executive Council together since 1999, to the time we took our various positions. We are moving into a stage now in which anybody who wants to take a particular position must have some experience in government, either in the executive or legislative arm because even from the legislature, one can acquire the necessary experience.

Yes, it is good for somebody to come from the business world and take a political position; with time he will stabilize, but I know that those initial stages might not be good. Government is different from the private sector. I came from the private sector to become commissioner of health, and it took me quite some time to adjust. I had to move down to accept certain things that obtained in government. Of course, the government, too, had to move down to accept certain things I had imbibed as a person. But it took me some time, at least six months, to get to that stage. And it is not in the interest of any state for its governor to have a learning period because a lot of things can go wrong during that learning period.

Last month, there was the South-South economic summit, what is the philosophy behind the summit?

We came together as governors to look at the region. People just look at our region as a region of crisis and if they want to be nice, they say it is the region where oil comes from. We asked ourselves what the problems are.

We do not want to look at the region as a crisis-ridden region; neither do we want to look at it exclusively as an oil-producing region. We believe that there can be economic integration in that region because every state has its strength and together, we can have a very strong region, particularly, in economic terms. That is the primary reason we came together to say let’s look at our strength and weaknesses and see how we can partner, and also avoid duplication.

What do I mean? Cross Rivers State is well known for tourism; I should not, as a state, start duplicating what Cross Rivers is doing. We should rather think of how we can contribute towards ensuring that we build on the carnival that is happening in Cross Rivers State. That is just an example. And in Delta, for instance, we used to have a lot of palm oil; we can have two or three hubs in the region, where we can cooperate for the development of palm oil or rubber.

So, instead of duplication, we want to see how we can integrate by taking a particular economic venture and seeing how we can collectively develop it. Even in the area of transportation, there is a way we can work that out, be it by road, or by rail. All of us are struggling to build airports now, is it really necessary? Do we need to have Delta, Akwa Ibom and Bayelsa International airports each? Or can we have one or two international airports, and then have local airports? These are the sort of things we looking at.

Does the fact that Cross River has a carnival, for example, preclude other States from doing things that are similar? For example there is the Igue festival in Benin.

Let me ask you a question; do the Ishan (Esan) people take part in Igue festival? It is an ethnic festival and not a state festival, and that is the point I am trying to make. The annual carnival in Cross River is a state activity and it is one that we believe can attract interest from around the world. If all the other States do the same thing, then it becomes a localized thing.

Does this co-operation include two or more states coming together, for instance, to build a major road that links them?

The details of the summit in Calabar is still being worked out, but straight away, I can say that one of the things we talked about there was the issue of the coastal routes from Cross River through Akwa Ibom, Rivers, Bayelsa, Delta, Edo to Ondo and Lagos. The Federal Government has even shown interest and I think we may be collaborating with it. The details will be worked out.

After the summit, you and your governor colleagues met to announce the floatation of an airline. Some cynics have said it is premature; and there seems to be no further explanation.

Let me correct that. I think that was just taken as an example of the things we can do. No agreement has been reached on what we want to do on various projects. The Pat Utomi committee that we set up will keep compiling the various presentations made at the summit, and come out with action plans. Until we get the summary of the presentations and the action plans, we cannot start talking about the specific issues. We were seeing the issue of the airline as a possibility, not as if we have agreed to float the airline.

Obviously, the summit is poised to be meeting every year; are there pitfalls you would be looking at avoiding so that it does not become a talkshop?

What we are doing is being driven by the Chief Executives, which is slightly different from the Nigerian Economic Summit Group (NESG), which is more of a private sector initiative. The commitment of the government to the NESG is not as strong as our own commitments as State governments. We initiated it, and we are also driving it, and we have people in the private sector who are giving all the technical support. But we, as governors, are on the driving seat, and we can say this is what we want to do.

Secondly, we are not also going to go into too many things at the same time. By the time they come out with the plan of action, we must narrow it down to things that are possible; it could be one or two things. It is not going to be a situation in which we would be pursuing so many things, which can lead to failure. Let us zero down to things that can give effect to other things. But we are determined as governors to leave legacies behind; and in interacting with my colleagues, I can see determination in everybody’s action.

Over the years, the image of the governor has not been too good, such that when you leave as a governor, your second-hand value automatically becomes questionable. We have learnt, and we know what people feel about governors, rightly or wrongly, and even at the national level, the Governors’ Forum, a lot is being done to change the image of the governor.

That is a natural entry point for us to look at the polity; it is not just the perception of governors, but the perception of the entire political class. An opinion poll, am sure, will show that the political value of the elite will be almost rock bottom low. What do you think is responsible for this; is it that we don’t have the right kind of politicians or it is the people themselves who do not understand the politicians?

Or may be it is the press that is the biggest issue? (Laughter) It is difficult to say one thing or the other is the reason; but it is a combination of many factors. We are coming from long years of military rule to a democracy, and in 2003, we moved from one tradition to another, and that was fairly easy. But to move from the eighth year to the ninth year, resulted in a lot of doubts because that was the first time we were going to be having that kind of transition.

Now, we have people with some long years of experience occupying elective positions; especially in the Assemblies where you have people who are spending their third term. In the Senate, for instance, there used to be many changes in leadership. It has been stable for two years now.

What I am saying is that there is concern on the part of every elected public office holder on the need to keep democracy. The frequent change of Speakers in the Houses of Assembly in the past is not that rampant anymore. So, we must accept that there has been growth in our democratic process, and I believe that with time, the stability will increase.

The problem is that, there are a lot of expectations on the part of Nigerians. People are becoming impatient, and the area that is causing the impatience is the area of infrastructure, mainly power. If today we have power for 24 hours, the image of the government will change. People feel bad that after so many years power is still a problem.

After infrastructure is the area of elections; electoral reforms. People are wondering why we cannot achieve generally acceptable elections. Then the third one, of course, has to do with other issues like the Niger Delta and so on. But I think power infrastructure and electoral reforms are the two major issues. So, it is for us to collectively look at these areas to see how we can deal with them because once we are able to deal with these two areas, there will be a lot of credibility for the government in power.

Unfortunately, we lost almost a year and half because of power probe in the National Assembly. That public probe was made popular by the press and I recall that when the chairman of that panel came, I told him: ‘look, don’t concentrate on the people that are clapping for you. Listen to the drums, not the claps, because it is the drum that can direct you correctly on the steps to take.’ But if you are dancing to the sounds of the claps, you might miss the drums. I think today, that may be what has happened.

As a member of the National Economic Intelligence Council, I know that a lot is being done to ensure that we get what is needed in terms of power. We are looking at 6000 megawatts, but that is small compared to what we actually require. But we hope that with 6000 megawatts, there will be improvement and people will be happy.

Again, Mr. President set up a committee on electoral reforms, which has submitted its report and the Federal Government has sent the Bill to the National Assembly, and they are looking at it. When people say the President has shortchanged Nigerians by sending the Bill to the National Assembly, I wonder. I think it is a democratic process and whatever disagreement anyone has with Mr. President should be taken to the National Assembly. If what the President has sent to the National Assembly is not acceptable, let Nigerians go and say so at the NASS. But when we keep turning to an abusive forum, like I watch sometimes on television discussion panels, I don’t think it is fair. We all have representatives in this country. Instead of coming on TV to abuse the President or government, go to your representative in the Senate and tell your representative that you don’t agree with what the President has sent to the Senate.

Let the media at this turn, instead of criticizing the President for sending the Bill, educate Nigerians that if they have issues with the Bill that the President has sent, they should go to their senators. I think in that way, we will deepen the debate and we will deepen our democracy.

Now you talk about the people meeting their representatives, but there is a disconnect because these people were imposed as a result of the subversion of the democratic process.

No, most of us who are vocal and are critics, are people who don’t even go back home. Such people are not even part of the process of electing the man; they are either in Lagos or Abuja. They have access to the media and they are always criticizing from Lagos to Abuja, either on TV, radio, or in the newspaper. So, even in the first process of electing the man who becomes Senator representing your district, you are not part of it. Such people do not know their ward, not to talk of their constituency.

We all have a responsibility to deepen our democracy. Ask yourself what role you can play; the man is there already, so what role can you play to ensure the deepening of our democracy; then go back home and start doing one or two things. If your senator is not good, you can contribute to his becoming good. At your level, for instance, there is no way you will go back home and call three or four persons from your place and say you want to hold a meeting and people will not listen. By the time you call three, four people and announce it that you want to look at the electoral reforms in your constituency, of course, the senator will be forced to acknowledge that his people are seeking his attention on the electoral reforms. If he does not come, he will get the report. If after that you are talking on TV or in the papers, I will listen.

Issues concerning your election still remain unresolved; has this in any manner impacted on your speed?

I will not say it has impacted on my speed; but naturally, it is more of a distraction. From the way the electoral laws are, one has to pay attention to one or two things, discuss with your lawyers and strategize and all that. The distraction is such that while doing your work, it will be in your mind that you have issues to deal with.

Does it cross your mind that after the elaborate engineering you have done, you could be asked to go back for a rerun?

When we get to that bridge, we will cross it. It is a court case; so, I really don’t want to discuss it.

2011 is a big issue now; is your vision for the State terminating there, or it goes beyond to 2015?

In fact, the comprehensive programme we have for Delta is a 50-year programme, which is captured in our Integrated Development Project; it is quite comprehensive. I cannot come and say I want to plan for four years; I am planning for many years. Between now and the end of the year, some components of the programme will be launched; but what we have done is to take some areas and have master plans. We have a master plan for Warri, Asaba, Sapele, Agbor, and they are all ready. The one for the Ughelli axis is still on the drawing board. What we want to do before the end of the year is to have public presentation of master plans of specific areas, with the people from the areas being part of the presentation. Master plans are such that they can only succeed through public-private partnership.

How much pressure have the governors of the South-South brought to bear on the Federal Government with regard to the implementation of the report of the National Technical Committee on the Niger Delta?

The committee was set up by the Federal Government, and it is the government that will come out with a White Paper on what it intends to do. What we can do as governors of from the region is to put some pressure on the government to as much as possible implement the report, and we are doing it.